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Post by Darryl Strawberry on Mar 28, 2006 21:17:33 GMT -5
MIL and good point
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Post by Jose Canseco on Mar 28, 2006 21:18:23 GMT -5
oh well....and the team in MIL
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Post by Bill Stoneman on Mar 28, 2006 21:39:06 GMT -5
The whole point is to make the league more competitive. Some teams put in effort, but don't have 8 hours a day to put toward the league. Does that mean that they should never be able to win, because of the fact that they only have 15 minutes a day to put toward this? That would really suck.
And yeah NYY, you and DET did build the right way, and you know what..both of your teams lookbetter for the future overall than any of the teams that tanked (or just had no MLers) this season, and that includes whatever they'll have after this draft. PHI is another team that is slowly building things the right way, and he has a nice team too.
This isn't a rule that's going to make it that easy for teams at the bottom to become great, while screwing over the top teams. The teams that would be getting these picks will more often than not be teams that are right in the middle of the league, and I think a team like CIN improving like that will be a rarity. There have been many leagues out there, and most of the time it's the same 7-9 teams in the playoffs and winning it all EVERY YEAR (I have seen at least 4 leagues that have gone 20+ seasons and had at LEAST one division that the same team won every season. The other league I'm in right now, the same team has won the NL west 13 straight years, another AL team also has a 13 year streak of playoffs (a couple were wild cards), the same team has won the NL west 12 straight years, and the same team has won the NL central 24 straight years. Also, the team that consistenly finishes 2nd in that NL central has won the wild card 12 of the last 15 years. So that's 5 out of the 8 playoff teams that are basically the same EVERY season. How many real life runs are like that? The Braves, the Yankees...and that's it (and the yankees haven't even reached that level yet). That league is trying to make things more competitive, and they DO have compensation picks, and it still hasn't totally balanced things out, obviously.
I don't see the need to be selfish..I mean winning is great, but I'd rather see a competitive league where everyone has a chance...the guy who works on the road all week and can only be around on weekends, or the people in school who go full time and work full time, or the people who have all day to work on the league. I WANT teams to overtake me in the West, and the other powerhouse teams. It's a good thing.
PS- Teams like CIN also probably wouldn't be eligible for these picks, because though he was more legit than Boston or Baltimore in not fielding 18 year olds who wouldn't even be good enough in their prime, he still played enough guys out of position to possibly be warned for tanking. For example, as of the end of last year, he had:
CIN Rhodes, George playing C vsL: (0.00 familiarity) CIN Quinlan, Robb playing CF vsL: (0.66 familiarity) CIN Hoover, Leo playing 2B vsL: (0.00 familiarity) CIN Bryant, John playing 3B vsL: (0.00 familiarity) CIN Tracy, Chad playing 1B vsL: (0.05 familiarity) CIN Rhodes, George playing C vsR: (0.00 familiarity) CIN Quinlan, Robb playing CF vsR: (0.66 familiarity) CIN Hoover, Leo playing 3B vsR: (0.00 familiarity) CIN Bryant, John playing 2B vsR: (throws left-handed) CIN Tracy, Chad playing 1B vsR: (0.05 familiarity) CIN Taveras, Willy playing C vsLDH: (0.00 familiarity) CIN Tracy, Chad playing 1B vsLDH: (0.05 familiarity) CIN Rhodes, George playing 3B vsLDH: (0.00 familiarity) CIN Lewis, Domonique playing 2B vsLDH: (0.40 familiarity) CIN Quinlan, Robb playing CF vsLDH: (0.66 familiarity) CIN Hoover, Leo playing CF vsRDH: (0.00 familiarity) CIN Rhodes, George playing 1B vsRDH: (0.00 familiarity) CIN Lewis, Domonique playing 2B vsRDH: (0.40 familiarity) CIN Quinlan, Robb playing SS vsRDH: (0.00 familiarity)
Under the tanking rules, that would constitute a warning, in my opinion.
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Post by Darryl Strawberry on Mar 28, 2006 21:42:57 GMT -5
PS Cin did that because BOS and BAL were tanking and wanted to keep the 1st pick, but he still would have had 1st or 2nd if he hadn't done that, and it's not being greedy, I am sorry if YOU see it like that, the best point about this is, if teams are improving enough to get the compensation pick then they don't NEED the compensation pick, it's kinda a reward for doing good, without need for it.
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Post by Bill Stoneman on Mar 28, 2006 21:51:41 GMT -5
Not really, because in many leagues teams improve to close to .500, then all of a sudden they can't get much further, due to their receiving later picks in the draft, and the lack of Free Agent talent. Something like this helps those teams continue to push toward being over .500, and gives teams an incentive to try to improve instead of rebuilding for 20 years. It may sound stupid, but more often than not in HH leagues teams rebuild, and look like they're going to be good, yet they stick in a constant rebuild. There are a couple of cases of teams sucking for so long that all of those top 5 picks become a good team, but it's actually more rare than the teams continuing to rebuild constantly. That could be because of bad handling of prospects, or getting good picks but then not drafting well, or whatever reasons, but it's proven, and there's already signs of that developing here (quite a few powerhouses that shouldn't fall for a while and quite a few teams with not much light at the end of the tunnel).
Also, all of last seasons records don't matter, because the first year records are counted are this coming season. So we're starting basically on level ground. If teams don't tank, which they can't anymore, there's no reason any team should win less than 55-60 games, because they pretty much have to field capable players. The improvements won't be getting 60 wins which is a 30 game improvement- the improvements will be much more modest.
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Post by Darryl Strawberry on Mar 28, 2006 21:53:08 GMT -5
yeah but the problem with the teams getting worse in THIS league is that they give their 1st rounders up for shit, meaning stupidity, not bad luck
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Post by Darryl Strawberry on Mar 28, 2006 21:57:41 GMT -5
burp
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Post by Dirk Nowitzki on Mar 28, 2006 23:37:47 GMT -5
The whole point is to make the league more competitive. Well, then you need to give a baseball IQ test before approving someone to be a GM because people don't improve not because they don't have the chance, it is just that they are stupid.
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Post by Doug Melvin on Mar 29, 2006 7:03:32 GMT -5
Well then...if we don't do this, change the compensation picks...they do it in RL. Right before the 1st and 2nd rounds. Based on Free Agents. Look in to it, I'm not exactly sure how it works. I'll post it later.
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Post by Dirk Nowitzki on Mar 29, 2006 9:32:42 GMT -5
Well then...if we don't do this, change the compensation picks...they do it in RL. Right before the 1st and 2nd rounds. Based on Free Agents. Look in to it, I'm not exactly sure how it works. I'll post it later. They do give compensation, but as you pointed out for free agents, not for being a bad team and then just being a slightly worse team. To do something based off FA would be incredibly complicated. The system was fine as it was.
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Post by Darryl Strawberry on Mar 29, 2006 9:35:16 GMT -5
I think the rule should have a provision in it like any team with more than 20 MIL to spend during offseason is not allowed to have a compensation pick, because if they have alot of money to spend, and suck, then thats there own fault.
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Post by Dirk Nowitzki on Mar 29, 2006 10:51:00 GMT -5
It basically comes down to, anyone who supported this rule change can't reason their way out of a paper bag. This is so incredibly stupid, it isn't even funny.
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Post by Doug Melvin on Mar 29, 2006 10:51:01 GMT -5
In this case I think I would deserve a pick. Look at how I improved my team...and I have over 30M available . I think that this would be good. I do have a #10 pick but I could use more . I depleted my farm system to build a contender and improve my team . So I think it would be beneficial. Plus, look at my PFA's this past yr and look who I have this yr. This season is my final stand . Not everyone can be as lucky as you COL with having a stealler ML and farm team. For those who wish to improve at the ML level, this will help ease the pain of trading away spects to be better in th ML. I think it helps. Plus...no one will be "Studs" that late in the draft. It will help get solid players that can be packaged eventually for a star. Did I mention, it will help, IMO
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Post by Brian Cashman on Mar 29, 2006 13:11:11 GMT -5
in that case I had over 24 mil to spend this offseason and won an extra 25 games and had the #12 pick overall but I on the other hand didn't depelte my farm by trading them away just called alot of them up lol
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Post by Jose Canseco on Mar 29, 2006 13:17:55 GMT -5
as far as not allowing the teams that tanked last season to be eligible for a compensation pick next season I 100% agree with that...and I dont care if I am included in that mix b/c I did end up tanking...but as COL pointed out only to keep what would have been mine or LA's before the tanking began...
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Post by Cal Ripken Jr. on Mar 29, 2006 14:49:27 GMT -5
there will be no compensation picks in the '09 draft, the '08 season is the 1st season, improvement in the '09 season determines the 1st compensation picks
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