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CHW/HOU
Jul 20, 2005 14:32:06 GMT -5
Post by langevin25 on Jul 20, 2005 14:32:06 GMT -5
Houston Gets:
Jason Kendall Ed Walsh 7.5 mil for this season in CASH
Chicago Gets:
Joe Mauer Hou 2nd rounder
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CHW/HOU
Jul 20, 2005 14:37:37 GMT -5
Post by chev28sox on Jul 20, 2005 14:37:37 GMT -5
i confirm nice to get a ml proven catcher (personal fav ) who lets me trade lieberthal
and a good 1b spect
cash issues too
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CHW/HOU
Jul 20, 2005 16:53:53 GMT -5
Post by Darryl Strawberry on Jul 20, 2005 16:53:53 GMT -5
I dunno know about this one, Kendall is having a great year, but Mauer is 8 years younger(22) and having a great year as well, actually though only 75 AB's in ML having a better year than Kendall, with Mauer having a .997 OPS and Kendall at a .823 OPS, and with Ed Walsh not being as good as a second round pick, it shows that HOU is losing the 2 better things in this trade. Mauer is better than Kendall(and holds alot more value than Kendall) and Hou second rounder is going to be better than Walsh. The money just helps with the contract. The deal doesn't make any sense, and it is bad for the league, as a NL team I don't mind another NL team getting worse but, this is helping a bad team(in the NL) get worse, and helping a good team(in the AL) get better, though I don't suspect cheating in anyway, this is still bad for the league, which warrents my veto.
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CHW/HOU
Jul 20, 2005 17:03:06 GMT -5
Post by Mohandas Gandhi on Jul 20, 2005 17:03:06 GMT -5
players hitting .340 tend to be expensive its the way its always been. this trade should live on cuz if the guy likes kendall, let him have him it isnt like mauer is the second coming of god.
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CHW/HOU
Jul 20, 2005 20:15:39 GMT -5
Post by Darryl Strawberry on Jul 20, 2005 20:15:39 GMT -5
I agree that the .330 BA is impressive, I am just looking at the .823 OPS at age 30 which is .174 lower than Mauer's is in his 75 AB's in the ML at age 22, the difference in vitals are equal to the difference in performance, I am just voicing my opinion that this makes no sense, he gets a never should reach ML spect and a good 30 year old catcher, for one of the top 3 C spects in the game, who happens to be better than Kendall. IMO which is all this is is my opinion, this trade is bad for the league and for the Astros. BA is one thing, but OPS is what matters, if a guy is 22 and projected at 197 hits 17 HR's 45 doubles and 2 triples and 82 walks, would you trade him for a guy that is 30 and gets 192 hits, with only 7 HR's 26 doubles and 3 triples and 65 walks? and then the 1st baseman is a scrub that should never see a bench in the ML and he gave up a good 2nd round pick for him. I mean even if you go by projections instead of performance Mauer is 10 times better( .871 OPS vs L and .964 OPS vs R compared to Kendall's .826 vs L and .786 vs R), I mean St Louis I understand this makes your division weaker, and of course you are gonna stick up for that, but looking at this trade, nobody with reason would do this, Mauer has performed better in ML than Kendall has this year and is projected to perform better than Kendall, and is younger and makes less money, Kendall for Mauer should easily get vetoed, and then you add in HOU 2nd rounder for Ed Walsh, that is a horrible deal to. I mean yeah if HOU was looking to win now, trading for Kendall would be a good idea, but giving up your future for him? just doesn't make sense, this hurts him this year and for the future, but like I said ajendas are clear on why you want this to go through St Louis, but step back and look at it at a fair perspective, and the deal is obviously bad for the league and completely unfair.
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CHW/HOU
Jul 20, 2005 20:24:34 GMT -5
Post by Dirk Nowitzki on Jul 20, 2005 20:24:34 GMT -5
I have to agree with the gay GM Archer Zen. This trade should be vetoed. The trade is basically Kendall and cash for Mauer and a high second round pick. Ed Walsh is trash and should never, never, never see a spot on the 25 man roster. Mauer isn't a gangbuster but he is much better than Kendall.
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CHW/HOU
Jul 20, 2005 20:29:22 GMT -5
Post by Mohandas Gandhi on Jul 20, 2005 20:29:22 GMT -5
right, just cuz im in the same division as houston is the only reason why i dont mind this trade. im sure if he cared for your opinion he'd ask for it, and same with mine. he has his reasons for making this trade and they should be respected.
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CHW/HOU
Jul 20, 2005 20:43:04 GMT -5
Post by Darryl Strawberry on Jul 20, 2005 20:43:04 GMT -5
I do respect his reasons, but if that is how trades worked in this league I would have Delmon Young right now, the harsh reality is that sometimes GM's do thing that they regret, and though they don't realize it right away, when he has no farm system and his team still sucks 3 seasons from now, then we are gonna have to look for another HOU GM. Thats the harsh reality, he is giving up a top spect in the minor leagues and a low 2nd round pick(which will net him a pretty good player) for Jason Kendall, doesn't this seem odd to anyone other than me and ATL??? Kendall is having a decent season, great BA but poor OBP and Mauer has done better than Kendall in ML level this season.
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CHW/HOU
Jul 21, 2005 1:02:13 GMT -5
Post by JP Riccardi on Jul 21, 2005 1:02:13 GMT -5
I do respect his reasons, but if that is how trades worked in this league I would have Delmon Young right now, the harsh reality is that sometimes GM's do thing that they regret, and though they don't realize it right away, when he has no farm system and his team still sucks 3 seasons from now, then we are gonna have to look for another HOU GM. Thats the harsh reality, he is giving up a top spect in the minor leagues and a low 2nd round pick(which will net him a pretty good player) for Jason Kendall, doesn't this seem odd to anyone other than me and ATL??? Kendall is having a decent season, great BA but poor OBP and Mauer has done better than Kendall in ML level this season. I agree with you.
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CHW/HOU
Jul 21, 2005 5:01:44 GMT -5
Post by Doug Melvin on Jul 21, 2005 5:01:44 GMT -5
I guess I will put in my 2 cents...Do I think this is an even trade. No way. But unfair and bad for the league? I'm close to saying yes. But the OPS arguement to me doesn't make sense. So what? Kendall isn't much of an xtra base hit guy. That makes a hell of a difference. So of course his OPS will be lower. He is a contact guy. He puts the ball in play aot more then Mauer (hence less walks and K's).
Overall, Kendall is more valuable in the short term. Better speed, ML experience, can be moved to alot of different positions with his range, and having a much better year. Mauer will be only a C. No big deal there cuz why move a guy that will give you that much O from that position. I think the Kendall and Cash for Mauer part is reasonable. HOU has a chance to win now. Only 7 games back in a weak DIV. But he sells his future. Teams do it all the time. So I have no prob with that.
I do however have a prob with the Walsh for a 2nd rounder. But is that part "bad for the league?" If that went through alone, would we say anything? Prob not. Just like the Selling of a VERY HIGH 3rd round pick for...I believe 3M...somethings you question. But you don't worry too much about cuz it will not sink the league.
IMO...HOU will regret it. But I don't think it needs to be vetoed.
Just another opinion from a team in his DIV, who personally, doesn't want this to go through because it hurts MY chances in the PRESENT!
PS You always have to pay a higher price for those people who are CURRENTLY performing. And KENDALL is this season.
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CHW/HOU
Jul 21, 2005 10:20:39 GMT -5
Post by Edgar Martinez on Jul 21, 2005 10:20:39 GMT -5
well i'm gonna have to veto.......hate doing this but i see no point of this trade.........this doesn't help houston at all......people say this help him short term......how.......all he has to do is just put mauer in his other lineups and there he has something for now and long term with much better defense(stronger arm) and of course better offense.
On a side note houston says he has cash issue........well apparently he gonna love taking on extra money as the 7.5 doesn't cover all of kendall salary this season, plus next season its gonna hurt him bad when he has to take the full brunt of the 10 million kendall makes
To make this a much better trade offer a solid spect in return, walsh is bench worthy at best. Also pay more of kendall's contract.
veto
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CHW/HOU
Jul 22, 2005 7:03:50 GMT -5
Post by langevin25 on Jul 22, 2005 7:03:50 GMT -5
Okay I get my chance to respond Colorado.....since when can you judge how someone is doing when he is 22 and only has around 75 ab so far in the season compared to many more by Kendall. If this was a trade in your favor you would say ohh well blah blah it is only 75 ab. Kendall is a proven ML starter who quite frankly is having one of the best seasons for a catcher. Mauer although having a good season at ML is still young at 22 and might not necessarily be ML ready. You yourself say all this with the taking guys up too young and whatever else. I'm trying to make my team younger and this is a deal that lets me do that even though I lose my #2 guy in my lineup who is tearing up the plate this year. Your whole 197 to 192 hits bs is at best weak for an arguement and more like propaganda. 5 hits is not a huge difference in vitals. He is a contact hitter that does the job and exactly what HOU needs for his team now. You guys forget that he would have Lieberthal as trade bait and gets he one of his favorite players in Kendall. So as far as Kendall for Mauer goes I think it is a pretty fair deal especially with the 7.5 mil (which would have been 10 mil if there wasn't this stupid 7.5 mil limit) 2nd rounders can go for around 5 or 6 mil depending and will a decent 1b spect with fair power. I think this deal is not in any way going to hurt the league and should not pass. Also I'm sick of seeing people post "why did you take this over mine" as in a few other trades I read this morning before commenting like im allowed. The GM didn't pick your trade get over it the whole league doesn't need COL and other GMs wasting the site bandwith and what not with a stupid face and this is odd or whatever else. Maybe if you weren't such a trade hound (COL individually) or just annoying towards the person they would actually want to listen and take your trades. No offense COL with this post but you have just gotten annoying lately with the whole gossip king bs and need to quit overanalyzing trades. With how far you have been pushing people in this league i think as much as u may help at times you hurt the league and scare new GMs and just make old GMs like myself sick of it.
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CHW/HOU
Jul 22, 2005 7:15:33 GMT -5
Post by langevin25 on Jul 22, 2005 7:15:33 GMT -5
ohh yea and ajendas is spelt "agendas" sorry just annoyed me more
and after looking at stats after last night's sim how can u say a guy hitting 352 with a 429 obp is you know just good as you down played him to be. a 429 obp is poor now I know you are trying to blow smoke up everyones' ass you fool
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CHW/HOU
Jul 22, 2005 8:07:00 GMT -5
Post by Jose Canseco on Jul 22, 2005 8:07:00 GMT -5
cant we all just get along.... I have no comment on this trade b/c I dont have access to HHmanager until I get home. Dan O'Brien
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CHW/HOU
Jul 22, 2005 22:49:10 GMT -5
Post by Darryl Strawberry on Jul 22, 2005 22:49:10 GMT -5
I had a really big post that said some things I shouldn't and now it is gone, cause I am nice like that, and decided it would be better not to say them, so I edited it and deleted it all
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CHW/HOU
Jul 23, 2005 2:22:18 GMT -5
Post by Bill Stoneman on Jul 23, 2005 2:22:18 GMT -5
I had a really big post that said some things I shouldn't and now it is gone, cause I am nice like that, and decided it would be better not to say them, so I edited it and deleted it all Thanks.
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CHW/HOU
Jul 23, 2005 10:59:20 GMT -5
Post by Mohandas Gandhi on Jul 23, 2005 10:59:20 GMT -5
well now you have to say it cuz im curious.
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CHW/HOU
Jul 24, 2005 20:51:53 GMT -5
Post by langevin25 on Jul 24, 2005 20:51:53 GMT -5
yea i want to see what u said too
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