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Post by Darryl Strawberry on Jun 12, 2005 17:15:44 GMT -5
TB gets: Adam Jones, Franklin Nunez, Gene Mondesi, Frank Ramos, Tex Lewis Col's 1st round pick in 2006 Col's 2nd round pick in 2006
COL gets: Delmon Young
We worked on this deal for about 2 straight days, finally working something out, this gives TB alot of depth and the MIF he has desperatly wanted, especially with the crappy selection of 2nd base and SS in the draft this year. Also gives him alot of depth in AA and a good SP for this season. Gives him some early round selections in the draft though they will be later picks still should come up with some good players that will help his ball club. Colorado adds Delmon Young to his minor leagues, We hate to see Adam Jones and our other players that we have loved to have in our system, but Young was to hard to pass up.
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Post by Chuck Lamar on Jun 12, 2005 17:19:30 GMT -5
TB confirms sadly seeing the best Spect on my team go...but i welcome the onslaught of other players from COL...TB thanks COL for being kind and open minded about the trade and hopes to do more business like this with him in the near future!
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Post by Bill Buckner on Jun 12, 2005 20:16:39 GMT -5
stupidest trade ever, but i cant veto it cuz its fair
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Post by Doug Melvin on Jun 13, 2005 8:05:28 GMT -5
Looking at this...I don't really think it is fair. Jones is good (not great) but the others are marginal at best.
Nunez walks a ton and fielding is lowest I have seen (.888)
Mondesi is not looking that special, only starting 11 games out of 25 Apperances and an ERA of over 4.00 in "A" ball
Lewis has 25 HR potential but look at everything else. His Player type is a dime a dozen.
Ditto for Ramos.
And the draft picks are not much either, cuz of how good COL will be. I vote to Veto, which makes 2.
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Post by Doug Melvin on Jun 13, 2005 8:06:43 GMT -5
That is, if my opinion matters. Just voicing my opinion.
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Post by Brian Cashman on Jun 13, 2005 20:23:25 GMT -5
DAMN NYY DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO SIGN OUT! URGH!
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Post by Darryl Strawberry on Jun 13, 2005 20:29:25 GMT -5
I believe thats 24 hours, with only 1 official veto unless you count Cincy's veto, which still only makes 2, so I believe it is official and just awaiting processing, since it has passed the needed time.
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Post by Bill Stoneman on Jun 13, 2005 22:31:27 GMT -5
And pending sponsor approval....
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Post by nate839 on Jun 14, 2005 14:23:14 GMT -5
i think its crap too....but its up to TB gm, and his sponsor.
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Post by Chuck Lamar on Jun 14, 2005 14:53:00 GMT -5
Sorry guys my sponsor hasn't been assigned yet...
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Post by Jose Canseco on Jun 14, 2005 15:08:33 GMT -5
I think the 24 hour rule needs to be looked at. Not everyone can check this everyday. Also this is a trade that harms the league...If anyone having those 4 identical specs, and have a team like COL which has a 99% chance of having a VERY late rd pick...were to offer all of that for Pujols, Cabrera, Arod, Bonds...any established player, not a minor leaguer...this trade wouldn't even be an issue b/c I dont think anyone with a player of that caliber would even ACCEPT that trade... But even if this trade goes before the trade committe, it will be allowed....Bos and Nyy have already said it was fair...though I really dont see how they will be able to veto ANY trade in the future after allowing this deal to pass...I mean this is worse then the CHW/WAS Abreu trade COL and BOS wanted vetoed... So remember that...this deal will now set a standard of if a trade is fair or not...THIS is the bar...and its low! Dan O'Brien
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Post by Jim Hendry on Jun 14, 2005 15:26:08 GMT -5
My two cents...I see trades like this in fantasy baseball. I'll get an offer of 3-4 marginal guys for one stud. On paper, sure I am getting more HRs, Rs and RBIs...but that is assuming the guys I am getting are better than ones I already have. If they aren't, then I have to drop guys to make room for ones I didn't really want or need in the first place. Young, no doubt is a superstar. Jones is a good SS but by no means a stud. The rest of the 'spects, especially the pitchers, are marginal. I don't see how a franchise that has over $30 million to spend benefits from this deal. An extra 1st round pick could be helpful (I had 4 this year and got some great prospects...but they were early in the round). I don't see any great prospects going that deep in the 1st and certainly not the 2nd. I just don't see how this trade does anything to help Tampa Bay. Jones might be the only one to get any MLB playing time. I am not saying veto the trade because it is uneven...uneven trades happen for different reasons, like salary adjustment, or trading 'spects for veterans for a playoff push. But Tampa Bay has a buttload of cash and can use it to bring in stars to build around its future, I don't see why he would trade away the center of that future. I'd be more than happy to sponsor TB and tell him not to do this deal...and I further agree with Cincy about the integrity of future trades and the standard that this deal is setting. People should be allowed to trade anyone they want, just as they do in MLB, but the difference is with the editor, we get a much better idea of the potential these players have than they do in real life. I just don't like this trade and I think TB definitely needs a sponsor if it two them "two straight days" to put this together. I'd hate to see the original offer...
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Post by Darryl Strawberry on Jun 14, 2005 15:49:36 GMT -5
you know what, do what you want, this deal is fair, Nunez is gonna get playing time he is TB 3rd SP, the guys I gave him gives him depth, cause other than Young, he had nothing good in his minors, this gives him alot of players, and he needed the MIF help, which Adam Jones gives him, (he hits .300 and has a .441 and .420 OBP, and decent HR power for a SS/2nd baseman). I know he isn't Delmon Young but the difference in OF and SS is large considering the mass majority of SS and 2nd baseman coming into the league have sucked ass and the OF'ers have been awesome. and btw TB has less then what the salary page says he has cause his salary cap and TOR are switched around.
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Post by kevintowers on Jun 14, 2005 16:06:09 GMT -5
who cares if 13 or 15 gms said it should go through?!??! the point is that if lamar wanted some average mif help he didn't have to trade his best player if not the best future star of the league away to get it. you said it yourself that the mifs in the league suck so he could go get another cheaper. i guarantee dowd wouldn't do this trade if it were in reverse but the good thing is we all know dowd will end up trading young away in a couple weeks anyway.
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Post by kevintowers on Jun 14, 2005 16:06:29 GMT -5
if we are voting then i vote against it btw
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Post by Darryl Strawberry on Jun 14, 2005 16:18:32 GMT -5
let's compare Adam Jones to TB next best SS-
Adam Jones- .312, .441, .482 vs. L Jorge Cantu- .268, .329, .378 vs. L
Adam Jones .296, .420, .458 Jorge Cantu- .255, .313, .360
Adam Jones- Fielding% .978 Jorge Cantu- Fielding% .947
Adam Jones- INF range- 7.68, OF range- 5.96 Jorge Cantu INF range- 5.10, OF range- 4.02
Adam Jones- 4.4 arm, 6.7 speed Jorge Cantu- 5.4 arm, 2.6 speed
ADam Jones- BB/K- 126/69 Jorge Cantu- BB/K- 45/93
HE WAS DESPERATE for an upgrade, and if you care to look at his needs,he got an upgrade. If you take the OF'ers I gave him compare them to Young Young- 378 hits in 1200 AB's Tex Lewis and Frank Ramos- 318 hits in 1200 AB's
Young- 104 HR's in 1200 AB's Tex Lewis and Frank Ramos 55 HR's in 1200 AB's
Tex fielding% .998 Ramos fielding% .985 Young- fielding%.986
so he gets a HUGE upgrade at SS takes a HUGE downgrade in OF, but gets to decent OF'ers, and a decent ML SP, with another decent minor league SP, and a 1st round pick and 2 round pick. I don't see where the problem is. He is filling his team out, he needed depth, and gave up his best player to get alot of depth in minors. It's up to the sponser though.
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Post by Darryl Strawberry on Jun 14, 2005 16:20:39 GMT -5
Plus the time limit for vetoing is over so it's up to the sponser. AND of course I wouldn't do it, I don't need depth, I don't need the MIF help, and yes the MIF in the league suck, so not get one of the better ones when you have nothing good their, I love how a .300 hitter with nice speed and a .441 and .420 OBP is all of a sudden mediocre though.
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Post by Jim Bowden on Jun 14, 2005 17:21:55 GMT -5
O'Dowd, I love how you left out important stuff in your post like walks and range which Young has a huge advantage in. Id say TB already has 4 OF's 23 or younger in his system that are better than the 2 guys you gave him-Hernandez, Baldelli, Pena and Gathright. They are a couple of bench players. And where do you get that Nunez is TB's #3 SP? Buehrle, Harang, Lidle, Marquis, Bradley and Moss are all better than him. This deal shouldnt go through.
And another thing, just because a guy isnt listed as a 2b or SS doesnt mean he cant learn to play there. As long as the guy has decent IF range, a decent arm, and throws right handed, he can learn to play 2b or SS in the minors.
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Post by Edgar Martinez on Jun 14, 2005 17:28:52 GMT -5
Jad.....jones is pretty good, i know he's awesome to you but look at delmon young....he's a super stud....delmon himself makes jones look mediocre. Ok you keep saying TB is desperate for MIF spect, so that means he should trade a prized prospect for jones and decent spects and 2 picks that won't bring much to him. IMO you keep overrating jones but forget the fact you are getting delmon young in return. Stop comparing players btw it doesn't really matter the fact his best mif is cantu.....if he is patient he can work out a nice trade or even just sign a guy in the offseason.
Honestly TB needs a sponsor because he could've gotten alot more for Delmon and looks like he still need a bit of help in this league.
Mike on a side note i agree with the others we should extend the veto deadline to 48 hrs as it seems many managers don't often check the boards or are online as frequent.
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Post by Dale Murphy on Jun 14, 2005 18:18:18 GMT -5
IF u ask my opinion on this trade Lamar could have got a helluva lot more talent for young than what he got jones is good but the others are decent players. But he does need a sponsor. But we all know that col was gonna try and rip one right beside us as usual.
Comments by larry
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